Friends, Family & Carers Forum

[Pip2013]

Can somebody please help us save our daughter?

Our 31 year old daughter began suffering an episode we now understand was likely first time schizophrenic psychosis in Melbourne 1 April. Friday 5 April she walked out of her father’s house and is now suffering and extremely unwell on the streets.  I, her mother, live in Adelaide and my daughter regularly spent time between my home here and her father’s home [location removed by moderators].

We have received absolutely no help and even hostility on occasion from police. CATT have been useless. Please no comments about ‘underfunding’ as they have deliberately presented us with ‘solutions’ that are useless (such as telling us an ambulance if she is found can assess her when just like the police they can do nothing if she refuses treatment no matter how unwell she presents).

She started out living at YHA but her state has deteriorated and we believe she has not been accessing her bank account and understand she is now living on the streets. Her father followed her for an hour once [location removed by moderators] and she displayed a look of hatred toward him, simultaneously having the look of someone who is completely divorced from the reality of her surroundings.  This is from a girl who used to knock the wind out of him with her hugs and who cared for him while he was ill.  She has always been a loving daughter and very close to both of us but from 1 April she blocked us – even her closest lifelong friends. He said when he found her that she looked close to one who is suicidal.

Our only hope is that she returns home on her own – not likely given how long psychotic episodes can last. Or that she is somehow hospitalized where they can notify next of kin.  Otherwise our worst fear is the very worst news.

I keep telling these “public servants” that she is in grave danger and utterly incapable of protecting herself from assault, rape, robbery or worse but they ignore my words and just ask me again and again “do you have any proof that she is putting her life at serious risk” – it’s insane.

Has anyone got any light they can shed?  Any help?  I tried asking about Compulsory Treatment Orders/Assessment Orders at Vic Legal Aid but they were just rude and steered me in the direction of the CATT team who were of no use.

[tyme]

Psychosis is a such a hard one @Pip2013 . 

I don't have personal experience of psychosis myself, but from what I gather, it's something many families are facing. That is, their loved one is gravely unwell, but can't see it, and therefore they refuse treatment.

Unless your daughter is in immediate danger, there is little the police or services can do. They cannot apprehend someone who is not clearly in danger to themselves or the public. I hear how much you are crying out for support. I have been in the public system, under the CATT services, and involved with police, but I was at imminent risk. Also, with the public system, if I did not show up to appointments or did not collaborate with them, eventually, they'd have to let me go. They may be able to keep me in hospital overnight or something, but if I wasn't in immediate risk, I wouldn't be able to be apprehended or put on a community treatment order (CTO).

CTOs can be quite traumatic for people, and therefore, once again, unless the person themselves is at immediate risk, or the public is at risk because a person refuses treatment, then a CTO or involuntary admission doesn't normally happen. Even if a CTO is carried out, the person can take it to court and have it overturned.

I'm so sorry to hear how stressful things must be for you right now. Your feelings are valid, and it sounds like you have gone through all the correct avenues to get support for your daughter. 

I hope and pray you will be in contact with her soon and that she gets the help she deserves. 

Please let us know how things go.

[tyme]

Hey there @Pip2013 ,

How are you going?

[Pip2013]

Hello Tyme

Thank you for your response and for your sympathetic thoughts, they mean a lot.

Likewise I’m very sorry to hear of your experiences in a system manifestly inadequate and often quite callous in dealing with such circumstances. I can remember a time when police would sit with you and talk with you for a while to ask about your home, family and what was going on with your life but now they have different selection criteria.  The old police used to find ways of bending unjust destructive laws to help people. Now with few exceptions I’ve found the same thing with every agency I dealt with: no one on the other end of the phone cares.  They just want you and your problem to go away.

I am struggling to understand the definition of “imminent risk of harm to herself” as stated by these agencies. My daughter’s father found her on the streets last weekend and followed her.  On approaching her he found her completely disoriented and unaware of her surroundings.  She has money in her account for shelter but is too ill to even use her account and appears to be sleeping rough and appears sick.  He said she appeared to be not far from the final solution – meaning suicide (I believe he meant she looked very troubled and unhappy, desperate – anyone can see desperation in a person’s face when they’re this distressed).

How is this not being at imminent risk of harm to herself?

I mean how on earth can you tell what is on a person’s mind – if they’re considering ending life – unless you sit down and talk to them?

Do you have to be on a bridge, poised to jump?  Or must you have actually jumped?  For the ‘system’ to recognise that you are at ‘imminent risk of harm to self’?

[Krishna]

Hi @Pip2013  Im so sorry to read about your daughters struggles and the deep pain and fear it has created for you and your husband. I have lived this with my daughter also. At the time, I contacted staff at the mental health unit at the hospital closest to where my daughter was and asked their advice as to how to get her admitted for the help she needed. They referred me to CATT and fortunately they took the time to understand the severity of the situation and located my girl and an ambulance was dispatched. I’m so sorry they are not ‘listening’ to you. Is there anyway your husband could locate your daughter again and call for an ambulance, explaining to them the risk he feels your daughter is at? I’m truly sorry for you all. Such a hard journey. My thoughts are with you all 🙏

[Pip2013]

Thank you for your  reply Krishna.

With what you’ve explained to me I was struggling to see why CATT took your case seriously yet not ours. Then I asked her father and he told me it’s because all the CATT teams are different and none of them have a central database. 

So where you managed to convince your CATT team to take your situation seriously to the extent that they actually went out looking for your daughter – unimaginable responsiveness and help compared to our situation – the ones we have contacted gave me the aforementioned lack of helpful advice and lack of care.

Of course I’d like to ask you which CATT team locality you were dealing with (who knows, our daughter may even be in that locality by now) but this forum censors locations from what I’ve experienced. 

Oh well, too bad I guess. 

Once again I want to ask readers of this post generally: (I received no response) does anyone have any idea of what - in plain English terms - constitutes a person being 'at risk of harm to themselves'? 

As I mentioned in an earlier post my daughter is experiencing psychosis, has undergone a 180 degree personality change, is unaware of her surroundings, treating everyone as they are a threat to her well-being, unable to even access her bank account to look after herself and get shelter, sleeping rough (we assume), and finally placing herself in grave danger by being on the streets where anything could happen to her (to me this is a massively dangerous situation - people disappear) - yet nobody (Vic "Legal Aid") or CATT, or police seems to think this is "at risk behaviour".  

What is a "serious risk of harm" to herself?  What must she be doing/behaviours she is displaying in order for her to be treated as this?

[lavenderhaze]

Hi @Pip2013,

I am so sorry to hear about the situation you are in and I really hope your daughter is safe

I can only imagine how difficult this must be for you

As far as I know, at risk of harm to themselves or others constitute having reasonable belief that she:

1. has recently attempted or is likely to attempt suicide
2. tried to, or attempted to, seriously hurt herself or someone else.

I completely agree that being on the streets in the mental headspace is concerning, but from what you've mentioned in your post, I believe the police classify the above as 'at risk' behavior.

[Pip2013]

Thank you.  Thanks for the definitions.

Her father said, when he saw her on the street that time, that he believed from her appearance (no recognition of her surroundings, deep disturbance etc etc) that she "looked frightened, like she was not far off the final solution".  This obviously means suicidal. 

[Krishna]

Hi @Pip2013  Just to let you know to type @ when replying to a post and a drop down list will pop up, click on the name you’re replying to and they will receive a notification of your reply. In response to your question, I’m assuming it’s ok for me to mention my daughter was in NSW at the time. I wish there was more I could suggest to help your family through this.